Home Sweet Retirement: A Guide to Your Perfect Retirement State

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The Hosts:

Kevin Kroskey, CFP®, MBA – About – Contact

Tyler Emrick, CFA®, CFP® – About – Contact

Episode Transcript:

Tyler Emrick:

Where you retire can be just as important as when you retire Today, we break down the best states to retire in and the factors you should consider before making a move.

Walter Storholt:

Yes, it is another episode of Retire Smarter. I’m Walter Storholt, alongside, of course, Tyler Emrick, and it’s always such a pleasure to talk to Tyler each and every week and get his insights on what’s going on in the financial landscape, and throughout the financial world, how it might impact you and your financial future as well. You never know what you’re going to get on today’s show, and we’ve got a really good one queued up here because everybody I think likes this conversation, Tyler, that we’re going to dive into where that location conversation, where we’re going to live. I don’t know, for me at least, it’s a lot more of an exciting topic to dive into than maybe estate planning or what’s going to happen when I die and some of those kinds of things.

Tyler Emrick:

Isn’t that the truth? Well, I’m the worst of it. I tell everybody, I’ve moved quite a bit but I’ve never gone outside of Ohio, so I’ve hit all the big cities in Ohio, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, but have not made it out of Ohio borders.

Walter Storholt:

Have you hit Toledo?

Tyler Emrick:

No, I haven’t hit Toledo. I haven’t hit Toledo.

Walter Storholt:

It’s like another state though, at that point, right?

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah. But yes, always a fun topic. We get quite a bit of questions on it from time to time as retirees are trying to dive in and think through what retirement’s going to look like for them. And I figured today, we could dive into, well, what are some of the considerations and how should you tackle this idea if you’re considering it or thinking about it.

Walter Storholt:

I can’t wait to dive into it. If you’re new to the show, by the way, let just remind you that Tyler is part of the great team at True Wealth Design. He’s a wealth advisor there, a certified financial planner as well, and a chartered financial analyst, so well qualified to talk about the things we’re digging into today, and if you do want to schedule a review of your financial plan with the team at True Wealth Design, you can do that very easily by going to TrueWealthDesign.com. Click on the Are We Right for You Button to schedule a 15-minute call with an experienced advisor on the team. We’ve got that link in the description of today’s show for you as well. So what brought this topic to your attention, Tyler?

Tyler Emrick:

Well, I think, like I said, it comes up quite a bit with the families that we work with. I think it’s a natural conversation when you start thinking about your finances and what retirement looks like, and the best use case for your wealth and where you want to be, and where you want to live is into that equation. So you start thinking about, well, what are the financial factors that go into making a decision or potentially making a move that aligns with your financial picture and that good old retirement plan that we talk about all the time. So it comes up for the families that maybe their kids are out of state and they’re thinking about moving to them, or just simply, they want to get to some warmer weather. Especially when you think about the February weather here in Ohio, we’re pretty chilly, so this conversation is had a lot.

Walter Storholt:

This is about the time of year when people do think about living somewhere else, right?

Tyler Emrick:

It is, yes. It’s a good time to skedaddle out of Ohio for January, February, and March are certainly some good months to get out if you’re going to pick one. But there was also, as we start thinking about the framework of how the pods going to go today, I want to just run through some numbers and some stats on just what states might rank up there as a high destination point. So WalletHub did an article and a study that was titled A 46-Factor Approach to Determining the Best State for Retirees.

Speaker 3:

Egghead Alert.

Walter Storholt:

I’m just going to ding WalletHub on that. You don’t get the egghead alert today, Tyler, but 46-factor approach, that just sounds made up for sure.

Tyler Emrick:

Sounds like a doozy, right? It definitely sounds like like a do.

Walter Storholt:

Also a doozy, yes.

Tyler Emrick:

A doozy, yes. No, absolutely. The 46-factor approach, so pretty comprehensive I guess it’s safe to say, and that’s what they use to look and look into this decision on, hey, what states rank high and where are retirees moving and where do they want to be? So I want to go through a few of those and what they listed out, and then we’ll finish up talking about what I think are going to be some of the big decision points that you need to think through and factors that might play into the decision that are a good starting point as you’re thinking through this, or if you’re listening and this is something that might be on your plate to consider at some point. But when we look at the top overall states for retirees, so again, using that 46-factor approach from WalletHub, any guess on what some of the top states would be in there?

Walter Storholt:

I’m going to guess Florida’s in there, for sure.

Tyler Emrick:

You know that one? Yep. Florida, Minnesota, Wyoming, South Dakota, and then one that’s maybe a little close to home for you.

Walter Storholt:

Colorado.

Tyler Emrick:

Colorado.

Walter Storholt:

Okay.

Tyler Emrick:

Yes, absolutely. So that’s what they were reading.

Walter Storholt:

Those are interesting. South Dakota?

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah, South Dakota and Wyoming, Minnesota, Colorado. Florida was the one that was the first one that came to my mind as well.

Walter Storholt:

A few of these are not like the other, you know what I mean? That’s odd. Minnesota, I get. I can see Minnesota.

Tyler Emrick:

True. I think Florida, Colorado are the only two that I’ve been to. I haven’t been to Minnesota, Wyoming or South Dakota, so can’t speak to either one of those.

Walter Storholt:

The South Dakota one surprises me. No offense to people from South Dakota. Just as a retiree destination, I’ve not ever heard anyone say, “Oh, I can’t wait to retire in South Dakota.”

Tyler Emrick:

Any guesses on the bottom five?

Walter Storholt:

I’m going to guess we’re maybe… Well, see, I would’ve guessed really expensive places to live, but with Colorado on the list, which is definitely not at the bottom of the expense category, maybe I’ll go the other direction, say Southern States.

Tyler Emrick:

Sure, yeah. Well, they all surprised me. Frankly, none of these would’ve came up, but the bottom five on their study was Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Washington, and New Mexico.

Walter Storholt:

See, I would’ve thought New Mexico would be higher up. I could see that being like the desert Southwest. Much like Arizona’s attractive, I see New Mexico, but I guess this 46-factor thing is taking into more than just where’s a nice place to live? That’s the key here, huh?

Tyler Emrick:

Correct. Yep. So I think they even maybe agree with you a little bit. So they do separate it out, and I don’t think they’re numb to the fact that, “Okay, yeah, 46 factors, quite a bit of decision points here. Let’s narrow it down,” because a lot of times, individuals that are thinking about moving, there might be a very particular reason. So the three big reasons that they listed out and had some separate lists for were ranking states based off of affordability, quality of life, and healthcare were another three that I thought were a little fascinating that they separated out. So the three states for affordability, Florida, Alabama, and Wyoming top that list.

Walter Storholt:

Okay, that makes more sense.

Tyler Emrick:

For quality of life, we hit Florida again, Wyoming, and Maine snuck its way in there. So I’ve been to Bar Harbor, Maine, pretty cool place.

Walter Storholt:

That’s where my parents retired too and grandparents retired too, so I know Maine well.

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah. And then the last one, healthcare-

Walter Storholt:

The way life should be, Tyler. That’s the state motto of Maine.

Tyler Emrick:

Oh, really? I didn’t know that be. What was that again?

Walter Storholt:

The way life should be.

Tyler Emrick:

All right. Yeah, that’s subtle. I like it. And of course, healthcare, which rounds out with Minnesota, Massachusetts and Colorado again showing up on there. So again, this is WalletHub. This is their scientific approach, a factor approach, but again, I think this decision’s going to come back to your individual situation, your family situation, and really very pointed decisions on what’s going to drive that.

So let’s dive into those, at least the ones that we come across very frequently and we talk through quite a bit, and hopefully some of the listeners here will get some value out of it and maybe it’ll be applicable to one of your situations to help you think it through.

Walter Storholt:

Sounds good. Let’s dive in.

Tyler Emrick:

Yep. So the biggest one that I hear when we think about moving states is, “Hey, am I going to pay lower taxes if I move to a different state?”

Walter Storholt:

Yes.

Tyler Emrick:

Yes. So as I’m sure many of the listeners know, there are a handful of states out there, maybe two handfuls of states out there that actually have no state taxes. Of course, some of the states that we’ve mentioned already before pop up on that list, Florida of course being one of them. But when you think about that lower state tax decision and if it’s going to be applicable, there are some slight intricacies that you want to be thinking about, and the first one that really comes to mind is in regards to, well, shoot, we just did two podcasts on it I think to start the year here, but social security. And as you think about social security, there are a number of states, Ohio being one of them, that actually does not tax social security. So if you’re moving to Florida from Ohio and your biggest source of income is actually just social security and you’re looking for some state taxes reprieve, well, hey, you’re not paying state taxes on your social security income in Ohio, nor are you in Florida as well.

Walter Storholt:

May not get as much buzz as the Florida no state tax mantra does, but this is where looking under the hood comes in handy.

Tyler Emrick:

It does, it does. Well, we can even take it one step further because there are also a number of states that actually do not tax your IRA and 401k distributions as well. Ohio is not one of those states, but we have a neighbor to the east, Pennsylvania, where if you’re in Pennsylvania and you do distributions out of your IRA account, you are not going to have to pay state taxes. Now, Pennsylvania does have a state income tax, but they’re a little more favorable and probably one of the most friendly states for retirees and you do not have to pay taxes on those IRA distributions.

So that goes into really a number of different situations, not only from a, “Hey, I need money to live off of. I want to start pulling it from my IRA account. I don’t have to pay a tax. That’s great,” but also as you think about some of those more complex planning items. Over a number of years here on the podcast, we’ve talked about Roth conversions where you take money out of a pre-tax retirement account, you convert it over to a Roth because you want to pay taxes on it because you’re maybe in a lower tax bracket from a federal standpoint. Well, if you’re considering a move and you’re maybe considering a move to one of these states that do not tax IRA distributions, well, especially if you’re considering a sizable Roth conversion or IRA distribution, that could save you a few bucks here as you think about your state income tax bill.

Walter Storholt:

It’s really neat to see these different levers that can get pulled. I never knew that there were some of these options in some states.

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah, absolutely. So a simple search online of any state that you’re considering, you can outline these and get at least a little bit of a high level framework to look at. And a tangent consideration here is even if you’re not considering just upping and moving and changing states completely, let’s just say you have a second residence in another state and you might have some flexibility over, well, which state do you want to be your residency state and actually pay taxes in? We run into it quite a bit with individuals here in Ohio that maybe have a second home in Florida, and what are the rules need to be considered on taking up residency? You do an IRA distribution and your residency is in Florida, well, there’s no state income tax on that, whereas if it’s Ohio, you might be paying a percentage on that distribution.

So most states, or at least Ohio from that standpoint has set some guidelines and some rules to help individuals in that case determine, well, which state do I have to take up residency on and where will I have to pay taxes on that IRA distribution? Ohio has what we call the Bright Line Residency Test that’s loose guidelines to help us from a tax standpoint determine that, but your state might be different. So for those families that do have houses in two separate states, understanding those rules and understanding, well, which state can we take residency in or maybe do we want to take residency in can have ramifications from a tax standpoint for sure.

Now, moving off from the tax side of things, healthcare is different state to state as well. As we think about that, well, a lot of retirees, once they turn 65, you’re going to go on Medicare. So your traditional Medicare, your part A and part B, most individuals aren’t going to be paying a part A premium. Some have to, but many, many, if not all of us, are going to be paying a part B premium. Those are the same from state to state, but when you get down into the intricacies of choosing a Medicare Advantage plan or a prescription drug plan or a supplement plan, those are absolutely going to be determined or those premiums are going to be determined by the state and the zip code that you’re in. You think about states like New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, they don’t allow health underwriting, so those are generally going to be more expensive states from a healthcare standpoint. Cheaper states, Iowa, North Dakota, Hawaii, you can go down a list and again do a quick search on here, but you think about one of your big-

Walter Storholt:

Hawaii and cheap you don’t usually hear side by side, do you?

Tyler Emrick:

That’s true. That’s true. That didn’t resonate with me when I had it on my notes here, but you are absolutely right.

Walter Storholt:

Interesting, Massachusetts is on there, because Massachusetts higher up was listed as one of the best places for healthcare, but this is looking at affordability of healthcare, so not exactly the same thing, but it seems to see them on both lists.

Tyler Emrick:

Right, so that’s the benefit going back to the good old egghead alert, 46 factors, right? We’ve got to weigh them all, but yes, so it can be a little bit intricate. And then too, as you think about just the type of plan that you’re on, whether you choose advantage or supplemental and maybe some of the healthcare networks that are available in that particular state. Look at Ohio for example. I know a lot of the advantage plans, they’ve started to have dual networks where, hey, if you’re in Ohio and in Florida, you can get in-network doctors on some of those plans. So looking at those healthcare costs, looking at the plans that you’re on, seeing what options you would have to change to before you make a move can have some ramifications on those underlying costs.

Walter Storholt:

Interesting. Right, so we’ve got the tax side, the healthcare side. What else?

Tyler Emrick:

The other one would be, I lumped it in with, I put property taxes and really just general cost of living,

And I lumped in a few big things that I’ll point out here, and some of them might be, “Well, hey, Tyler, that’s duh. I know that, of course,” but just to talk through them a little bit. You think about the cost of property taxes, those are going to be different from state to state. So if you are selling a home, purchasing a new one, obviously individuals are going to be looking at mortgage rates and what their payment’s going to be, making sure you’re paying attention to that property tax difference, but even still, you also need to take a look too at the insurance piece of that. First thing that comes to mind would be getting a home insured in Florida and the extra costs that that would potentially entail. Oklahoma was another one that came up from my research around Tornado Alley and some of the increased costs that it’s going to have to insure your property there.

Walter Storholt:

Our home insurance went up 33% this year here in Colorado, and I’m thinking a big factor is probably we had a big wildfire last year, not exactly near the neighborhood but in the county, and so that probably plays a role. And it’s way more than it was back when we lived in North Carolina. I’m talking like 300% increase.

Tyler Emrick:

Really? That much? Okay.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, pretty big difference.

Tyler Emrick:

So you’re living it firsthand or certainly can feel it.

Walter Storholt:

I feel that one, my friend, yes. Maybe not as bad as some other areas for sure, but definitely felt that change from the two states. Same thing with car insurance, big difference between the two states. It’s so expensive to insure and register a car here versus North Carolina, which felt like pennies in comparison.

Tyler Emrick:

Yes. Well, speaking of car purchases, I think another one that’s again a little less very situational, but if you think about having a big purchase like a car, some states don’t have sales tax.

Walter Storholt:

Really?

Tyler Emrick:

Yes, so if you’re purchasing a $50,000 car and you’re in a state like Ohio for example, you might be paying anywhere between six to 8% in sales tax on that.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, no kidding.

Tyler Emrick:

Hey, if you’re getting ready to move and you’re going to a state like New Hampshire, they have no sales tax on that car purchase. That’s a few thousand dollars delta there that you’re picking up just by saying, “All right, hey, I’ve got a car purchase coming up. I’m thinking about moving. How do I want to time it and how do I want to potentially think about it?” And they were going down into some of the intricacies about the registration fees and the difference each state has. I lived in Kentucky for a period of time and they did their registration fee based off the value of the car. Ohio’s is a little different. I don’t know if that’s the case in Colorado or how they do it there where you’re at, but goes back to those same lines that you had mentioned.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, no kidding. Okay. I was clowning this WalletHub 46 factor study at first. I’m starting to appreciate it. I’m seeing the layers and the nuance here.

Tyler Emrick:

Sure. No, absolutely.

Walter Storholt:

This sounds like a better study than these very nebulous ones where it’s like, “This is the happiest place,” or think like, how are you measuring that? This seems actually a little bit more legit, so I’m appreciating it.

Tyler Emrick:

That’s fair, but also too, I think you have a pretty good point too. It’s like, yes, hey, this is the best state to be, but that doesn’t mean it’s the best state for you in particular. We’re taking a look at the intricate details around from a financial standpoint. We will get into the soft side of things here probably towards the end of the podcast, but there’s a lot of factors that go into this. And you think about just our role as a financial advisor and how we help our individuals and our families make through these decisions, well, what better person do you have to help you weigh through some of these decisions as someone that kind knows your entire financial picture? And they can help look at it from the standpoint of not only, hey, can I afford this particular house, but what are these other tax considerations or healthcare considerations that I need to be mindful of as you’re starting to think about, well, is this decision right for me?

Not necessarily that one of these are going to maybe stop you or change your mind, but as you start thinking about the efficiency of the move and weighing all your options, I think it’s a very important and helpful conversation to have.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, it’s really helpful.

Tyler Emrick:

And the other thing is the last one I had in here from a financial standpoint was the estate planning side of things. Of course, as you think about just updating your state documents, if you are living in a different state or moving to a different state, you want to definitely make sure that you revisit your estate documents and make sure that they’re applicable and written for the court system for your particular state, but also, there’s estate taxes and inheritance taxes that might play a factor in here too that are state by state. So here in Ohio, we don’t have any estate taxes or inheritor taxes, but there are a handful of states out there that if you were to inherit money from an individual, they might have a tax on that inheritance that you got, or if you pass away in a different state, your estate might be taxed.

We don’t talk too much about it from a federal standpoint because the exemption amount is very substantial and very high, so you have to have a pretty large estate before state taxes become an issue for you, but we will see what happens here with the tax laws set to sunset in 2026 and what the new administration might do, and if that’s something that gets targeted there, and then there might be some additional and added conversation there. But each state could potentially have an inheritance tax or a state tax that you might need to worry about as well from there.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, perfect. I think that’s a big needle mover probably for those folks who have those large sums where this is going to make a big difference in how those rules come down for them.

Tyler Emrick:

You got it. You got it. And then I think it’s great to think through some of the financial impacts, but also as with anything, some of those more soft factors of why you might want to move and where you want to be or just sometimes maybe even more important.

Walter Storholt:

Is this the happiness one?

Tyler Emrick:

It is. It could be, it could be. What came to mind when I was thinking about it, obviously there’s the quality of life, social aspect, weather, all that good stuff plays a factor into it. If you’re one of those individuals that’s got to see the sunshine all the time, I don’t know if Northeast Ohio is maybe the best place for you, but things like that are obviously important. The big one we run into quite a bit is living near your children. Your children go off and they’re working in a different state, and it becomes a big decision on, well, hey, do you want to stay where you’re at or do you want to potentially move and get closer to your children and maybe even grandchildren down the road? I could certainly see the push-pull here for sure.

Now, when you get down into the research on that and living close to your children and grandchildren and how does that relate to happiness in retirement? Yeah, I think there’s mixed reviews there. I always point to the fact that it’s a two-way avenue. If you’re living closer to your children, there could be a potential there to help ease as you continue to age into retirement, and some of that support system being there can be tremendously valuable and being close. On the flip side of that, if you become the built-in babysitter all the time for your grandchildren too, that might be adding in some additional stress and you might have that second job in retirement that you didn’t expect to have as well. So I’ve seen it on both circles or both sides of the coin there.

Walter Storholt:

Also, your definition of close, there’s a difference between down the street and two hours and five hours away.

Tyler Emrick:

There is. So really thinking through what that looks like, what that might be. You also go in the impact of… We’ve had individuals where they’ve moved close to their child and then their child takes another job and moves again, so then are you going to continue to follow or not?

Walter Storholt:

Do you chase?

Tyler Emrick:

And you think about too, just moving from another state, and well, what social impacts does that have? Obviously, a lot of individuals have a very tight-knit social group that they’re used to hanging out with and enjoying time with in retirement, and if they move out of state, how does that impact where you’re spending your extra and excess time, to make sure that that’s applicable? I’ve also seen it where I’ve had clients where they move to a particular state and that social impact, not that they couldn’t find friends, but it didn’t seem to resonate with the lifestyle that they wanted, whether it was too busy and they wanted more of a quiet lifestyle, or on the flip side, hey, they lived to a quiet neighborhood right outside of a small town and it wasn’t exactly the atmosphere that they had pictured in their mind. So then they got to consider and think through, “Okay, hey, do I up and move again? How do I tackle this?” So I think that those softer aspects too as you’re weighing through options and thinking through are very important not to forget about as well.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah, all great points across the board here. So many different little layers, and again, the 46 points, not so bad. I tend to the harder numbers in something like this because the personal ones are just so hard to peg. I get calls from mom and dad. “It snowed another five inches today.” I don’t know how many other people are calling their son that excited that it snowed in their retirement location, right?

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s right. And my dad, he called me, we got a pretty big ice storm here over the last night, so he called me this morning. We were complaining about the ice being around here, so you’re not completely alone, Walt.

Walter Storholt:

But see, one’s complaining, the other one’s like, “Woohoo.”

Tyler Emrick:

Well, that’s true.

Walter Storholt:

That’s where that softer side is just so subjective. I like the harder numbers that you were sharing, because that’s what makes me think, okay, when I retire, what’s the… Okay, if I pull all these levers… Here’s my question for you, Tyler. As an advisor, this is still a lot of moving parts and a lot of numbers, so how does this conversation usually sound like? Is it, “Hey, Tyler, we’re thinking of getting a second home in Florida. What are the financial impacts if we did that, and which one should we live half the year in or not half the year in?” Is that how that conversation more comes up, or is it, “Hey, I want to have more money in retirement, so where can I live to maximize?” And then you approach it differently from that standpoint?

Tyler Emrick:

I’d say the first probably comes up more often than not, and I really think that’s where a lot of that front end work of just having a relationship with your financial advisor and having a plan that you can lean on to where we can go, “Well, hey, let’s test it. Let’s see. Let’s just first see what’s possible.” So then you might start looking at houses in that neighborhood and what they might cost and how that might work on the budget and could the plan particularly support it? How long could it support it? Would you have to sell your current home? And then really start backing into like, “Hey, is this financially feasible with the nest egg that we have built up?”

And then if it is, then we can start getting down into some of the more granular financial aspects on, well, healthcare costs. How does that affect our Roth conversion strategy that we’re implementing? Does that change where we do distributions from? Things like that. What do we got to do from the estate plan document? All that list that we just went through today, then we can start tackling them one by one and really start arming our families and clients with some of those tools to really just help them make a better decision from them.

And then of course too, just getting down into the why. A lot of times, pretty much every time, we have a relationship with the families that we work with, so maybe that’s what’s prompting that. Are we trying to get closer to your family or kids or a social network or are we just trying to get warmer weather? And just really helping them talk through that decision and the financial aspects and what’s going to impact just how they spend their money and their use case for their life.

So yeah, always a fun and good conversation to have, but we can lead that conversation and help them potentially think about things that didn’t even cross their mind. And hey, if we had a car purchase built in for the next plan the next year, hey, this is going to happen. Things like that can come up when we’ve talked through, and have a framework and an understanding of where their money might go and what that plan looks like.

Walter Storholt:

Yeah. I’m going to go drive to, where was it that had the fifty-thousand-dollar car… New Hampshire? I’m going to go drive to New Hampshire and buy my car.

Tyler Emrick:

New Hampshire. N sales tax, no sales tax in New Hampshire, right? I think Montana might be another good one that came up for a-

Walter Storholt:

Okay. That might be a little closer for me to get to.

Tyler Emrick:

… a car purchase. Don’t hold me to that one though, but I think that one might be on there too.

Walter Storholt:

It’d be an interesting experiment, contrast the time and effort and gas money to get there versus the savings on the purchase, see what comes out ahead, but yeah, that’s pretty interesting to see those things.

Well, very cool. Again, it’s an important part of the conversation, but ultimately still a pretty small part of the overall financial planning process. And I say that as a good thing because it means that the team at True Wealth Design really goes into incredible depth to make sure that you are well-prepared for your financial future, for all the retirement concerns that you might have, making sure that your money and your finances and everything is optimized specifically to your needs and goals. And if you’d like to see if you’re a good fit to work with the team, all you have to do, again, is go to TrueWealthDesign.com. Click on the Are We Right for You Button, and you can schedule a 15-minute call as an introduction with an experienced advisor on the team. That’s TrueWealthDesign.com. We’ve got it linked in the show notes so you can find it easily. Tyler, great episode today. Appreciate the help, my friend.

Tyler Emrick:

Yeah, have fun. We’ll see you on the next one.

Walter Storholt:

Enjoy your February winter in Northeast Ohio.

Tyler Emrick:

Will do, will do.

Walter Storholt:

We’ll see everybody again next time, right back here on Retire Smarter.

Speaker 4:

Information provided is for informational purposes only and does not constitute investment, tax or legal advice. Information is obtained from sources that are deemed to be reliable, but their accurateness and completeness cannot be guaranteed. All performance reference is historical and not an indication of future results. Benchmark indices are hypothetical and do not include any investment fees.